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Outside or Inside?

Posted: July 30, 2009
I would like to propose the following for discussion:

There has been a long history of disagreement concerning the location of god. Some would claim god is a distinct personality that lives in a separate place called 'heaven' while others would claim god is in nature and inside ourselves. The way I see it, this is a crucial point that determines a person's entire world view and any sense of spirituality.

For instance, if one believes god is apart from nature, then the cosmos and all life with it becomes secular and non-sacred. However, if one believes god is inside nature and thus inside ourself, then by definition ALL things must be considered sacred. In this view, spirituality becomes present and immediate in all things. Rocks, bugs and most especially people become very important and special. AS a result, one would tend to feel a greater sense of responsibility for themselves and others.

Of course, many would argue that god is either nowhere at all or perhaps both inside AND outside. The outside-inside argument makes perfect sense, since all things could be seen as an unfolding from a single intent or dream into Max Planck's quantum matrix (his 'mind of god' idea). But where (or whether) god exists is not the point I am proposing for discussion here.

My point is that where we agree to locate god is a primary determinant of how both individuals and entire societies behave.

I suggest that those who see god as outside themselves will tend to devalue life while those who see god as inside themselves tend to value life more. While there are no absolutes here, a simple correlation of beliefs to behavior does indicate warring nations are populated by invoking the power of an external god (or eliminating the idea of god altogether); while, peaceful nations are populated by those who see all life as sacred and have agreed to locate god within. Case in point: Hindus and Buddhists are not in the habit of war while the Abrahamic nations (and former atheist Soviet Union) are continuously at each others throats.

As you contemplate this, take a look at the attached picture of Michaelangelo's 'God Creates Man' in the Sistine Chapel, God is portrayed inside a cross-section of a human brain. In defiance of being told to portray scenes from the New Testament, he instead created a mural of quasi-pagan scenes with this famous 'god inside' scene in the very center. It is as if he was saying god is consciousness.

Amazingly, this was allowed to stand even though it is counter to the Biblical belief in original sin with god located outside in heaven. Few realize that the Sistine Chapel in Vatican City - built to the dimensions of Solomon's Temple against Hebrew law - is actually a pagan temple.

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RE: Outside or Inside?
By: gtarrant - July 30, 2009 01:53 PM MST
Oh that is an easy one man..

Inside everything.. outside our material conception of things.
RE: Outside or Inside?
By: sleuthold - August 1, 2009 12:05 AM MST
Well, being a holographic projection that our eyes seemingly pick up and our brains interpret what is outside of our Self would be nothing more than a projection by our Self and therefore everything seemingly outside of our Self would actually be inside our Self. Having said this, God would be all things inside and outside because outside is simply a projection and nothing outside actually exists and is simply a reflection of Self.
RE: Outside or Inside?
By: Richard Merrick - August 1, 2009 09:01 AM MST
Well, I think you're certainly right that the cosmos is a projection of ourself and us of it. And that god is beyond our material conception of things.

But what I really meant was whether it is more beneficial for society to see god as inside BOTH nature and thus ourselves versus locating god outside nature and ourselves in some separate place called heaven. For instance, the Christian view of error in nature (e.g., original sin) explicitly locates god in a separate perfect heaven. It is the question of believing in a separate god in heaven - fully extracted from nature and mankind - that I am questioning here as it affects how we behave as individuals and a society.
RE: Outside or Inside?
By: sleuthold - August 2, 2009 07:24 PM MST
My sister, a devout Christian wrote a term paper on Christianity in society. In her preparation of the piece she asked me a very pointed question: Not being Christian and not teaching my children discipline based on the fear of not being forgiven by God, how was it that I raised my children to be good, law abiding citizens? My response to her was quite simple, really. I raise my children with the notion that we are all one. That the universal law of “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Makes a great deal of sense to follow. With this said, they follow a universal ‘understanding' rather than a fear based Christian or Governmental law. God, being ‘all things' including Self and anything else that could possibly be outside of Self. I tend to believe that basing our actions on a fear-based law is not being fully honest. Honesty comes from simply having respect for others and therefore respect for anyone that seemingly appears outside of ours selves. The only benefit to the fear-based laws are of control over another. Not for genuine respect for another.

No matter what one may believe about God, it seems quite unrealistic for God, if in fact a power outside of human nature, to possess human-like limitations of any kind outside of pure love.
RE: Outside or Inside?
By: gtarrant - August 3, 2009 12:15 PM MST
Well it should be obvious that when you place God within everyone and everything that a common bond of mutual respect occurs (as Scott indicated). This however is something that does not work in the interests of control of the masses.

"...they are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors. They are holding all the keys..." - Morpheus (The Matrix)

The Vatican city is the prime example.

St. Peter's Basillica with the Obelisk in the center.
Look at the building from above in Google Maps (,-95.677068&sspn=48.106236,78.662109&ie=UTF8&ll=41.902253,12.457144&spn=0.005558,0.009602&t=h&z=17) looks like a Key, no?

They haven't come out with the true details that you point out in your book because knowing the truth of harmony and balance does not bode well for a hierarchial society. Who is to say who is best to lead over another when we should all be doing for ourselves right?

A rabbi once said..(I can't remember where off hand or I would link it here.)
"Until we are all like unto High Priests, we shall not see peace upon the earth."

Basically meaning until everyone understands that we are equal and all equally able to see, feel, and approach God WITHOUT an intermediary, there will always be subserviance and divisiveness among us. Even Jesus said that your relationship with God is your own.

Matthew 6:5-6 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Does that sound like someone teling you to go every Sunday and put money in the tray to seek your path to righteousness?

So, yes, it would be beneficial to society to follow the inside doctrine rather than the outside seperate one. Putting a scientific spin on it, the reason we cannot see these things or even understand that realm is simply a phase arrangement. We are out of phase with the divine and it is therefore outside our material realm of conception. However I hear that DMT, LSD, White Powdered Gold, MDMA and a few other banned substances can give you a glimpse of those realms by putting your mind in the correct phase.
RE: Outside or Inside?
By: Richard Merrick - August 3, 2009 06:14 PM MST
St Peter's "square" does look something like a key. In fact, the round area with the obelisk in the center is an astronomical sundial. Each of the 12 zodiac symbols are embedded in the concrete where the shadow casts over the year. In fact, there are many Egyptian obelisks throughout Rome and many Egyptian monuments in Vatican City. There is a clear understanding of harmonics in Nature, but nary a word preached of it from the pulpit.

Here's a short video corresponding to the Vatican City map above (taken on my trip there this Summer):
RE: Outside or Inside?
By: gtarrant - August 3, 2009 07:36 PM MST
The line of site on the key itself matches up exactly on gues what day.. Easter.
The round area is not so round, rather eliptical at a Phi:1 ratio. Basically a big Egg.
Now you know the truth behind the Easter Egg.
Also, the stones on the ground you mentioned.. divide a circle into 4 parts, 120deg, 120deg, 60deg and 60deg. Put the 60deg segments at the poles of the circle. It shows the angular progression of the sundial. the usual X symbol with a P on top is the symbol of Peter, the "Cornerstone" of the church.
thanks for sharing the video.
RE: Outside or Inside?
By: Richard Merrick - August 5, 2009 07:35 AM MST
Thanks for the info - was not aware of the mechanics set up there. You know the papal symbol is three keys. But all this really does emphasize how the Church was really founded on pagan Sun worship and astrology. I mean, there it is all laid out in plain sight, but nothing is said about it.

Inside the Basilica at the central square in the intersection of the cross of the building (where Tom Hanks goes down in Angels & Demons) there are four statues showing a pregnant woman at each corner that was created by Giovanni Francesco Barbieri, representing four phases of child birth, complete with looks of shear agony. Most would think this is Mary, but it is actually Barbieri's daughter (!), who had a difficult childbirth.

Of course, the catacombs are directly beneath this birthing scene, so just like the Easter egg-shaped Sun dial out front, it all symbolizes the pre-Christian idea of birth-death-resurrection.
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